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26/09/2020 17:00 IN-GAME, V-DAY

Discussion Regarding Recent SAPD/FBI Events


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1 hour ago, Ray said:

Toxicity is the real problem 

"Toxicity is bad" - Jake Randall

Righto Ray, poor Jake Randall. Such a decent lad, me and him had our disagreements but he genuinely cared about PD.  ultimately he was driven away twice by toxicity and elements of cancer.  

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14 minutes ago, Weston said:

Righto Ray, poor Jake Randall. Such a decent lad, me and him had our disagreements but he genuinely cared about PD.  ultimately he was driven away twice by toxicity and elements of cancer.  

yes still miss him :(

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2 hours ago, Oldman said:

Eduardo, you should've chosen SAPD considering the amount of reports you have against you administratively :D
Anyways, remove Matthew from FBI and give it to Arslan or me.

Screenshot_2020-04-04-01-12-29-27-1__01.
Screenshot_2020-04-04-01-08-54-33-1__01.
#TIMConspiracy #Blacklisted

😮 We will CK you for this!!!

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Lets not stray off-topic again. The situation at Idlewood has been explained from all sides enough by now.

 

This whole shitstorm (or whatever you want to call it), did not just came from that situation. I would like everyone to focus on the bigger picture now and argument on how this one rather small situation could get this big. What was it that build up to these reactions? How can we solve this in your opinions?

 

(Note that radical solutions will never happen and will neither solve the problem of the bigger picture. There are more sides at play here which all have their part of keeping the balance of the server which depends on a lot of different aspects).

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7 minutes ago, Mikro said:

This whole shitstorm (or whatever you want to call it), did not just came from that situation. I would like everyone to focus on the bigger picture now and argument on how this one rather small situation could get this big. What was it that build up to these reactions? How can we solve this in your opinions?

 

True the whole shitstorm is based of a small situation where management and fbi directors were found acting completely inappropriate, I believe it should've been handled something among the lines "Hey, we were just fucking around and it's nothing serious" and simply apologize for it, although if a PD had done that, oh my - Imagine all the forum threads and FBI jumping onto it to shame PD once again(for examples you can go back to my main posts).

But instead what happened? With all due respect to Leonardo, but he unironically warning people to stop complaining publicly or privately, then advises them to contact Mikro while we both know you're pretty busy and hard to reach.

If he wasn't so interested in solving the matter, why would he warn an official group due to a situation that HE was found guilty in?

 

Basically:

-> Loosen up a little bit, stop being so hostile against SAPD - specially when either of the factions are great, stop picking on eachothers mistakes to shame on it, but help to improve.

-> Remove the warning Leonardo made.

-> Don't lie in public as a manager to cover up troll/fuck-around scene, instead just own it and move on.

-> Cut the whole "weaponized hate" mentality where you consider every complaint against your side as a hateful conspiracy.

-> Be more transparent, prove that you are taking these complaints as serious as you would handle complaints against SAPD as seen in previous topics regarding swat/sapd.

 

Why did people freak out?
Because FBI and a certain group of people gives 0 slack to SAPD with criticizing them non-stop, ingame, forums, discord and what not. So when they see FBI acting that way, they see the need to speak up as they get criticized on daily basis and be talked down by these people.

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20 minutes ago, Mikro said:

Lets not stray off-topic again. The situation at Idlewood has been explained from all sides enough by now.

 

This whole shitstorm (or whatever you want to call it), did not just came from that situation. I would like everyone to focus on the bigger picture now and argument on how this one rather small situation could get this big. What was it that build up to these reactions? How can we solve this in your opinions?

In my opinion, generally speaking. This will never get solved. You can never have something a 100% perfect without any issues. This is a game we're speaking about and from time to time people will do unacceptable things by other parties just for fun.

As of this incident, I believe all of these discussions are leading nowhere. Parties from FBI insist that it was COMPLETELY the volunteer's fault. Parties from SAPD side say that the engaging FBI members were part of the whole problem initially, which, again, in my opinion, is what I agree on

As of how this could be fixed, I believe that a simple apology or at least acknowledgement from both the two agents that they realise they did a mistake and it wasn't a 100% the volunteer's fault/that they broke IC and OOC rules, could put an end to all of these pointless discussions which sooner or later will stray off-topic. If they are not willing to do that, again this discussion will lead nowhere so might as well stop talking about it.

Edited by Arendameth
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3 minutes ago, Richard said:

Basically:

-> Loosen up a little bit, stop being so hostile against SAPD - specially when either of the factions are great, stop picking on eachothers mistakes to shame on it, but help to improve.

-> Remove the warning Leonardo made.

-> Don't lie in public as a manager to cover up troll/fuck-around scene, instead just own it and move on.

-> Cut the whole "weaponized hate" mentality where you consider every complaint against your side as a hateful conspiracy.

-> Be more transparent, prove that you are taking these complaints as serious as you would handle complaints against SAPD as seen in previous topics regarding swat/sapd.

 

That too

Edited by Arendameth
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17 hours ago, Ajax said:

"All I can see is you have an issue"
"Clearly you have issues with FBI. The above is just large moan without any solid background"
"if you're so sensitive, get off the internet."
"Also, you must be delusional if you're questioning his efforts."
"Clearly this person has been waiting a long time for a day like this. Seize the day!"
"Of course you're not posting here because  you collect information to feed your vendetta against FBI."
"According to you."
"He told FBI to wear a mask and that's flauting power to SAPD?"
"Maybe you just couldn't comprehend that while being in FBI."
"Your butt hurt opinion, nothing can be done about that."
"If that announcement looks like trash talking then it's only you."
"This is only your perspective."


Sorry, but everything you said in your last post above is "your wrong perspective". Have fun. 


Now, onto the more meaningful parts:

 

Quote

"Way back huh? Sounds like this way back is after you got fired on 22nd April 2020. And if you've had issues for such a long time, I mean even before this community even existed then you clearly have some issues and are a toxic person who feeds on hate."


Jesus Christ, I don't know why I should be explaining such basic things to you but "issues" aren't necessarily two twelve-year-olds aggressively throwing their own shits at each other. Please get a grip. Also nice hyperbolic inference you got there with "toxic person who feeds on hate" part. I can do some ad hominem as well but that would be dangerous, since I'm not staff and I would be banned or strictly warned. Unlike certain people who do and write and break rules as they wish.

 

Quote

"Because he's far more competent than majority of the people here."


I don't see where the competence is when you simply gather the cream at the top and don't have to deal with newbies in your unit, while also having administrative privileges which allows you a greater reach to the playerbase.

 

Quote

"You're not criticizing anything, you found space to release your hatred which you're very evidently doing and are allowed to in the interest of freedom of speech in this topic."


Good thing you're not the one who decides what words mean, since I'm pointing out the flaws of something which is the literal definition of criticism. 
Also you may want to stop with the “hatred”, it gets boring quickly when you say it over and over again. Perhaps try to stop painting me as a life-long stalker of your dear friend you’re so obsessively defending? It’s getting irritating.

 

7 hours ago, Oldman said:

Eduardo, you should've chosen SAPD considering the amount of reports you have against you administratively :D
Anyways, remove Matthew from FBI and give it to Arslan or me.

Screenshot_2020-04-04-01-12-29-27-1__01.
Screenshot_2020-04-04-01-08-54-33-1__01.
#TIMConspiracy #Blacklisted


An example of the corruption I mentioned in my first post (and was ridiculed for). So an FBI Director and community manager can break the rules, encourage others to break the rules, and still weasel his way out of all this? Should I quote the rules of our community where having multiple and alt accounts are minimally punished by a permanent ban?

 

1 hour ago, Mikro said:

Lets not stray off-topic again. The situation at Idlewood has been explained from all sides enough by now.

 

This whole shitstorm (or whatever you want to call it), did not just came from that situation. I would like everyone to focus on the bigger picture now and argument on how this one rather small situation could get this big. What was it that build up to these reactions? How can we solve this in your opinions?

 

(Note that radical solutions will never happen and will neither solve the problem of the bigger picture. There are more sides at play here which all have their part of keeping the balance of the server which depends on a lot of different aspects).


I think the severe reactions we’re seeing right now stems from numerous counts of small transgressions here and there that have been covered up by perpetrators. Look at how the first topic was locked for absolutely no reason and on the whims of a community manager. Why did LocMax lie instead of at very least apologizing for the clear (albeit small) mistake that he had made?  Why did Leonardo write a wall of text threatening the SAPD and spinning the situation by displacing the blame on them?

I understand that the simple act of trolling/fucking around we witnessed there is by itself not that big of a deal, but right now we see coverups, blatant disregard for rules, encouraging disallowed practices such as multi-accounting (judging by the shared screenshots), and abuse of power against the victims and complainants.

How to solve this issue? Simple, punish anyone who is breaking community rules/encouraging others to break community rules accordingly. It’s painful to see new and inexperienced players punished and kicked around left and right for the pettiest things, while power abuse and rule break at this scale simply goes unacknowledged and unpunished. It would also be helpful if the management took a more active role in the development of the PD as it is in a state of dysfunction and pretty much abandoned by its Chiefs from time to time. Such problems will keep on arising if the management keeps on ignoring and bashing the PD at every opportunity. 

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I'd like to address this issue again. These screenshots provide some insight into how the FBI and a community manager clearly broke rules to gather dirt on groups. How can this be just ignored? This was posted before but now I'll repost this in the hopes it will catch the attention of a community owner.

k5IFEX8.png

Oops.

3lbmpSH.png

Double oops. *cough* A favour for a favour. *cough* Intentions. *cough* 

Edited by MarksmanV2
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32 minutes ago, MarksmanV2 said:

3lbmpSH.png

the irony... is that also how SAPD was voted the worst law agency group? as it was one of your main points backing up your false facts.

weaponizing hateful rhetoric you said? unexpected behavior from a manager and as you like to call it "representing an official faction and one of the main pillars of the server", the longer this topic remains open the move proofs appear how some people fail to remain impartial with their position and not pick any sides.

udDlt1m.png

 

 

Edited by Richard
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Posted (edited)

I'll keep this short & just summarize my final thoughts:

 

For me, this is a lot less about the two individuals being FBI and a lot more about them being community managers & faction leaders. If this was two random FBI agents, it would still be an issue, but it would not have been a big enough issue for myself and many others to involve themselves. Matthew is a community manager and FBI Director while Leonardo is an SAPD Command Advisor & some high rank in FBI while also being a community manager. Instead of trying to help the volunteer, they encourage him to kill a cuffed suspect (after Matthew already identified himself) & act in general extremely irresponsibly throughout the entire situation. 

 

But the BIGGER problem, in my opinion, is not the situation itself, but the response. Instead of admitting that mistakes were made, we get a response from Matthew where he lies about what happened (saying the FBI never identified themselves) and then locks the forum topic.  Then Leonardo posts a rant on #announcements in the SAPD discord blaming the PD for what happened and the resulting "drama". Neither community manager was willing to accept that they did anything wrong, despite the obvious evidence to the contrary. 

 

Had they just been capable of admitting that they acted irresponsibly and apologized, this situation would have long been over by now. But it's clear to me now that the community managers care more about their reputations than the well-being of the community, had they not  been so arrogant and been capable of admitting they made a mistake there would not be such outrage; instead all we got was lies & the suppression of information via admin power.

Edited by Billy
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1 minute ago, Billy said:

But it's clear to me now that the community managers care more about their reputations than the community

👏👏👏

 

2 minutes ago, Billy said:

Instead we got lies & the suppression of information via admin power.

As always. 👏

 

I did not fully read everyone's post regarding this matter was I had a week off gaming so I wasn't up-to-date on everything but this kind of shit happens on daily basis and when people get called out for it, they start crying "conspiracy theory" to everything. I'm glad a staff member has finally put light to some of this bullshit that occurs and I'm even happier that Dylan has publicly condemned the actions of the Community Managers.

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1 hour ago, Billy said:

issue for myself and many others to involve themselves.

Yea you really shouldn't be getting involved in anything as if you give a shit. 

Screenshot_29.png

Screenshot_31.png

Screenshot_32.png

 

Yet we're some how allowing snakes to claim they are here out of the goodness of their heart to help this server. The claim is they are here to critique a person who pretty much spends a good amount of his day not only developing the server but also plays inside it to help it thrive. 

 

He may have his cons but his pros heavily out do those and he's a lot better than the likes of you, who intentionally come for chaos and make an effort in to jump on a band wagon when the time comes to act hero and bitch. This is only what you've been found saying public about the server so god knows what you do in private. 

 

On a final note, this knight and shinning armour sharing those images of private messages is the same person that helped Carlo multi account and ban evade whilst being a manager.

 

At least you were truthful about your activity. I understand your perspective, his 4 lines of /l were more harmful than a person who actively told people he doesn't give a shit about the server and not to log in. 

 

 

Edited by Ajax
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2 hours ago, MarksmanV2 said:

Sorry, but everything you said in your last post above is "your wrong perspective". Have fun. 

As you say chief. 

 

2 hours ago, MarksmanV2 said:

Jesus Christ, I don't know why I should be explaining such basic things to you but "issues" aren't necessarily two twelve-year-olds aggressively throwing their own shits at each other. Please get a grip. Also nice hyperbolic inference you got there with "toxic person who feeds on hate" part. I can do some ad hominem as well but that would be dangerous, since I'm not staff and I would be banned or strictly warned. Unlike certain people who do and write and break rules as they wish.

There's a reason you're not. 

 

2 hours ago, MarksmanV2 said:

I don't see where the competence is when you simply gather the cream at the top and don't have to deal with newbies in your unit, while also having administrative privileges which allows you a greater reach to the playerbase.

You are as naive as they come. You're right, all he does is sit with manager rights and relaxes. 

 

2 hours ago, MarksmanV2 said:

Good thing you're not the one who decides what words mean, since I'm pointing out the flaws of something which is the literal definition of criticism. 
Also you may want to stop with the “hatred”, it gets boring quickly when you say it over and over again. Perhaps try to stop painting me as a life-long stalker of your dear friend you’re so obsessively defending? It’s getting irritating.

You already displayed your ability to understand what words mean by claiming the below announcement is trash talking. We got it, thanks. No need for more exhibits. 

 

"Corona virus is in-game and spreading rapidly - SAPD is refusing to equip their men with masks and refusing funds from Governor
WE (the FBI) will provide YOU (the members) with masks so you can stay safe" 

 

2 hours ago, MarksmanV2 said:

An example of the corruption I mentioned in my first post (and was ridiculed for). So an FBI Director and community manager can break the rules, encourage others to break the rules, and still weasel his way out of all this? Should I quote the rules of our community where having multiple and alt accounts are minimally punished by a permanent ban?

Multi-account? 🤦‍♂️ lol Get someone to proof read the shit you write before posting. 

 

2 hours ago, MarksmanV2 said:

I'd like to address this issue again. These screenshots provide some insight into how the FBI and a community manager clearly broke rules to gather dirt on groups. How can this be just ignored? This was posted before but now I'll repost this in the hopes it will catch the attention of a community owner.

???? Gather dirt on groups? He's talking about influencing the election as a government official using rp tactics. What are you on about? 

 

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Posted (edited)

Well you could at least post the full context of the quotes... At no point in time did I tell people not to login and I assure you I give more of a shit about this server than you do.  Don't talk about activity when you come and go as you please reinstating to moderator whenever it suits you. Continuing to act unprofessional and insult people in this very topic so that I have to remove your posts despite the fact that you're supposed to a  representative of our staff team. I involved myself despite being  fairly inactive because I knew no one else was going to step up to the plate and investigate what actually happened. As was demonstrated when Leonardo threatened to remove me just for checking the logs. Hence why I said I show up when "things get spicy" because it's good for the community to have "checks and balances".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers#Checks_and_balances 

 

Full context:

 

Spoiler

pHFz6s3.png 

nHlk3WS.png 

tmchRX6.png 

^ In reference to what makes a fair administrator

 

Also I login more than once a week, I was trying to give a humble response and not come off as arrogant.

 

 

 

Edited by Billy
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43 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Exactly which behaviour? List exactly what he's done which was so catastrophic for this server other than help it live? I mean if you are so aware of the issues he causes, I'm sure you can produce a pro and con list which demonstrates how his efforts don't excuse his apparent unforgivable behaviour? 

 

15 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Ye ok, lets wait for them then. 

 

Also your full context left out an important log. What was the context for this one? 

 

Screenshot_31.png

 

9 minutes ago, Ajax said:

👏Impressed by the logic. 


I don't know why this is even relevant. This isn't a topic about discussing the pros and cons of LocMax nor is this a topic about what Billy Miller said on discord. You are constantly getting things out of context by bringing in irrelevant stuff and baiting people to get into the gutter with you, which is derailing and undermining the main purpose of this thread. 

Edited by MarksmanV2
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Once again some posts removed/hidden. They were in no way contributing to the issue in this topic and the last questions I asked. Rather they were more and more becoming personal bashing. Some of the posts were left so everyone involved had their chance to give a fair reaction.

 

Now move get back on the issue instead of nitpicking on certain persons/situations.

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On 7/18/2020 at 3:02 PM, Romero said:

Officer Audrey Riley was seen murdering a suspect that was cuffed and knocked down by a witness. The situation was reported to the authorities and an action was taken. 

Not to stir up some old shit but I finished him because I roleplayed examining the suspect if he was dead, he responded "yes" which then I finished him. I was unaware at that time and was feeling down when PD decided to fire me. I 100% take the blame on that and I'm sorry.

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Lol. This isn't going anywhere. What all I see is people defending each other. Even if Matthew or Leonardo did something wrong, nothing would change. Worst case would be that they'll be given a warning by the President IC'ly or a verbal warning OOC'ly for provoking a volunteer to DM (?)  The way I see this is that no fruitful outcome would emerge from this thread. Instead, just move on. Trust me, creating more topics like this wouldn't help at all.

 

 

It is what it is and no one can change it.

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You all should spend a fraction of Matthew's time developing this server and then get shit thrown at for having bit of fun, which turned into a shitfest because of wrong actions made by the duo.  The feeling is definitely not nice. You can be butthurt all day or whine about it, but at the end of the day, if it weren't for Matthew, the server wouldn't even be online nor would it have 10% of the advanced scripts it currently has.

@Billy you should scripting too instead of creating topics 'to spice things up', actively playing another server as a staff member OR editing scripts of just for your own pleasure. (yes, armoury for SAPD/FBI nerfed without any vote from the management, just because you got wrecked in a situation).

The action made by the duo is definitely wrong and both have definitely understood their wrongdoings, why creating more topics, just to 'spice things up', Billy?

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1 minute ago, Derek said:

You all should spend a fraction of Matthew's time developing this server and then get shit thrown at for having bit of fun, which turned into a shitfest because of wrong actions made by the duo.  The feeling is definitely not nice. You can be butthurt all day or whine about it, but at the end of the day, if it weren't for Matthew, the server wouldn't even be online nor would it have 10% of the advanced scripts it currently has.

@Billy you should scripting too instead of creating topics 'to spice things up', actively playing another server as a staff member OR editing scripts of just for your own pleasure. (yes, armoury for SAPD/FBI nerfed without any vote from the management, just because you got wrecked in a situation).

The action made by the duo is definitely wrong and both have definitely understood their wrongdoings, why creating more topics, just to 'spice things up', Billy?

 

I'm glad you recognize their wrongdoings. I like many others are still waiting for the apology that usually comes to express remorse after such actions though. As I said in a previous post that is now hidden, I'm aware Matthew puts a lot of effort into the server.  I appreciate what he does in terms of development and I'm sure many people do too. But being a good developer doesn't give you a free pass to do whatever you please without consequence (at least it shouldn't). 

 

If you wanna go off-topic and talk about abuse or doing things for your own pleasure you're free to PM me and we can discuss why you're no longer a staff member. 

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This topic is cancer.

 

The two agents should just admit wrongdoing, the rest of the server should just admit it was a bit of fun.

 

Fucking drama. Love each other.

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Having a little fun clearly isn't the problem here. Nor is it how much effort Locmax put behind the server. We all acknowledge and understand that. The problem started when they both refused to apologise for their mistakes. Instead what we got to see was Locmax locking a forum thread that didn't break any rules and Leonardo throwing a lot of shit on PD via the discord announcement. If that didn't make it any worse they continued this no remorse behaviour by defending themselves on the forum with Locmax clearly being proven wrong in the first thread and Leonardo calling out people claiming they have "intentions". This in turn exposed more fundamental flaws in the checks and balance and a very clear rule break in the form of alternate/multi accounting and so on...

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100% agreed with Billy.

Managers and Staff should stay as unbaised as they can.

Managers leading groups will only make them baised.

The situation was not even a big of deal but the managers started the Sit was the big deal here.

i have been part of community from 2018.

i have seen the creating of SAAF and its removal due to the Hate from the “Carter” thing. 

Each of the Government groups should be under Normal players rather then managers.

This creates a baised environment , having 4 managers in Fbi and what do you expect.

Todays its FBi V SAPD.

Back in 2018 it was FBi V SAAF.

The Carter thinks that they are the superior in the server.

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