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26/09/2020 17:00 IN-GAME, V-DAY

Recommended changes to M:RP


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As we can all see some of the player actions are getting repetitive with generally no response, or at least not the one players would want, I've decided to list some of the changes that all of the players would benefit.

(Points were already discussed in some of the private chats from various parties to create the most unbiased version of it.)

 

1) Punishing should be maintained and upheld.

There's no point in punishing someone when he's going to rejoin and continue doing the same thing over and over again. Blacklisting should be taken more seriously to avoid that from happening. There should be a discussion if the player should be removed from the blacklist in certain cases, with valid arguments from the authorities.

 

2) Members, especially supervisors of the department & Tactical operation teams (SWAT) must be able to differentiate between groups, and individualize their approach to each group.

Each group has a certain playstyle that differentiates one from another, so members of the Departments must be able to take measures depending on each groups actions. Sending a tank at a few gang members is not something that should become a practice. Police force has enough departments to take actions against every group individually (depending on it's type).

 

3) Players must prioritize roleplaying and not always be driven by the need to end situations with either a shootout or jailing. Ending them with a unique roleplay is preferred.

Pretty self-explanatory, but jailing or a shootout isn't always the answer. Work towards building a roleplay scenario that wouldn't last less than a minute when someone gets shot. Be creative.

 

4) There should be no camping, baiting and such activities where the officers would instigate the groups to do something that would result in a jail or a shootout.

Also self-explanatory, officers are supposed to do patrols in order to find active suspects, or to try and find ongoin criminal activity. Provoking in order to get a response from a criminal group should be punished same as the "Cop baiting" rule.

 

5) Criminal groups should roleplay as the type of group they chose.

Mafias are supposed to do their job discreetly, away from any witnesses while holding a legal business as a cover. Gang members are supposed to create riots, steal cars, rob houses, defend their 'turf' where they hang out. Recently, you can see them planting flowers. Cops shouldn't turn situations such as dealing with a few gang members into a Mass DM with a simple panic button.

 

6) Deal with situations depending on their type (IC/OOC)

A lot of situatuons were taken OOCly (as a recent PD/FBI situation) where people could have taken the whole situation ICly after gathering enough proofs. Court still exists and it's doing it's role well as far as I know. Cop shooting suspects randomly is not a corrupted cop, it's deathmatching and should be treated respectively. 

 

(( Thread is to be edited if needed to add/remove/change certain aspects of the points. Reply only with your opinion on these matters while maintaining respect towards other people's opinion. You're free to add any other suggestion related to the matter in a constructive manner [logical, unbiased suggestion that wouldn't contain any bashing towards others]. Any post that contains any other response will be taken down on my request )).

Edited by Romero
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A beautiful suggestion.

 

I'd like to focus on your second point because i outmost adore it.

 

Sadly, this is not possible as PD is not gathering inteligence on groups - at all.

PD is clueless about existant groups and can not tell apart idlewood gangs- let alone name leaders in them.

 

It was my intention to create a detective division, which would do just that, but sadly while PD command was up for it, management was not. As we have FBI.

FBI has never shared any case file against a group to my knowledge so PD is left without inteligence gathering.

 

Sadly.

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Don't need intelligence gathering to simply try and interact with groups and get to understand them though. 

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Why would fbi share anything. It is close to impossible to keep anything secret with anyone outside of the fbi. 
 

No one stops pd from running organised patrol operations and making patrol reports feeding you information of daily activities of groups in certain areas. 

Edited by Ajax
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While i understsnd what both @Ajaxand @Weston are saying. It is not that simple.

 

Pd simply isn't in this state designed for that.

It is hardwired to respond to priority events every 5 minutes. 

 

Even if you and a group of fellow officers keen to roleplay identify a group, there is no real place to make a case out of it and post it on a noticable place for others to see.

 

And how will you gather such information? From a forum topic? Seems rather pathetic.

 

Being present without being undercover at any gang filled area for a prolonged amount of time is just asking for escalation.

 

A very simple solution is a small divison designed for that. Eager people ready to be apart of it.

 

 

Edited by Elias Carter
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That isn’t what he said. The suggestion is PD should react to certain groups in a certain way. Pd has the most resources available to them just because of the mere fact of their member count. All it requires is the time of experienced members to organise them and run proper organised patrols. It’s not hard to identify what sort of group is equipped with what sort of weapons. 
 

The cmd of pd to become active and manage their people better. You need to recognise those who know what they are doing and have the experience of running pd units. Example of such a person is Ben Blake. Your focus should be to grow your troopers and lower level cmd to reach a level of competency where they can manage this. Adding another tag won’t do anything. 
 

I myself have previously operated in pd for years and never had a problem executing the above. What you need is the right people focussed on the right objective is displaying a strong team of first responders who are continuously fed information regarding how they should respond and manage units in the field. 
 

It is a lot easier for pd to gather information than anyone. If you don’t know how to do that then adding an extra tag won’t help. As I said reach out to your more experienced staff and set objectives of what your vision is and execute it.

 

 

Edited by Ajax
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5 minutes ago, Ajax said:

It’s not hard to identify what sort of group is equipped with what sort of weapons.

Identifying the weaponry usually used is only 1/10 things PD and tactical teams should know about the group before interaction

 

7 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I myself have previously have operated in pd for years and never had a problem executing the above

Server grew since you were in charge of pd. Exponentionaly. 

Pd hasen't changed its dynamics at all since experiencing such drastic increases.

9 minutes ago, Ajax said:

What you need is the right people focussed on the right objective is displaying a strong team of first responders who are continually fed information regarding how they should respond and manage units in the field. 

Yes. Fed by an unmarked inteligence gathering division. A very simple but effective change.

 

9 minutes ago, Ajax said:

 

It is a lot easier for pd to gather information than anyone.

I don't think even you believe this is true.

5% of PD has access to something as basic as going plainclothes on duty.

The blue blip is mostly an instant drop of any gang activity or, an upcomming escalation.

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Yes, so of instead of PD command driving around in bullets, their focus should be diverted into how you can manage troopers in the field. The only reason they respond like this is because there’s no one there to coordinate them and not because they don’t know what to do. 

Edited by Ajax
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1) is true, and I think in general we're pretty "soft" on actions and blacklists / bans etc. Then again, it's kinda ingrained into the community to give people chances and I'm a bit conflicted about whether or not it will be a good thing to change that

 

2) There have been a lot more situations involving "wrongful shootings" and as an admin team we've noticed that and it was brought up in a staff meeting we had. In general, I think the amount of shootouts seems to have increased recently and there's a more "win/lose" side of situations. I'm hopeful with the Sheriff's department the police department will have a more RP outlook. But everything you said is accurate and sounds like a good idea, some more community involvement seems like an ideal way of dealing with it.

 

3) A noble idea and something the server should be striving towards as a whole, but how do you improve this?

 

4) Similarly to 2, we need to be more aware of this behaviour and is something I think we're generally doing more of this, but can always be improved.

 

5) Group council do review the groups RP and see if they "match" their style. Like you say, mafia shouldn't be robbing some poor homeless guy.

 

6) Again, a great point and something we should be working towards. In terms of the police claiming "IC" stuff, that should be improved and worked upon from both sides. Same with civ/crim side, can't just claim an "IC" reason without the appropriate planning or RP in place.

 

 

Lets not make this another FBI vs PD topic too, there's already one for that and let's not steer away from the point of this topic.

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Posted (edited)

The only way to force someone to create a roleplay scenario is to threaten with some punishments. Killing someone 'cause he told you "fuck off" is considered as a rulebreak and should be enforced more. Shooting someone will result in an active suspect situation that will lead to a shootout with cops.

 

Instead, make a brawl fight, loser does /lay and cries. If he pulls a gun out while down, the first person will shoot him, and when the cops come, he can RP an investigation with them (Just an example). Then he can take his case to the court, etc.

 

(( I'll make a suggestion soon on the respective board with some changes to the court system in-game, hope that it'll make it more interesting than it is now. Investigations were done by police officers so far inside the PD which is why people argue about them being biased etc. ))

Edited by Romero
typo
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1 hour ago, Romero said:

The only way to force someone to create a roleplay scenario is to threaten with some punishments. Killing someone 'cause he told you "fuck off" is considered as a rulebreak and should be enforced more. Shooting someone will result in an active suspect situation that will lead to a shootout with cops.

 

Instead, make a brawl fight, loser does /lay and cries. If he pulls a gun out while down, the first person will shoot him, and when the cops come, he can RP an investigation with them (Just an example). Then he can take his case to the court, etc.

 

(( I'll make a suggestion soon on the respective board with some changes to the court system in-game, hope that it'll make it more interesting than it is now. Investigations were done by police officers so far inside the PD which is why people argue about them being biased etc. ))

A player once said we need to make death or dying unpopular. there was a list LoxMax posted somewhere on the forum i pretty much liked it.

 

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I do think a bit of reeducation of some aspects of PD is needed. And i fully understand that PD duty can be very mundane and repetetive, and this is only aiding by the 24/7 shootouts. Hence i like Romero's suggestions where everyone has the responsibility to change the server dynamics. This includes harsh ass punishments, group leaders both legal and illegal actually disciplining and not tolerating nonsense.

I know PD command actually tries their best to remove the toxic people and keep PD somewhat clean.  As i stated in another topic from the very onset PD has been mared by toxic power hungry people.  In any Roleplay Community PD ( usually the main faction) has the duty to be the best example of Roelplay standards like it or not that usually how it is. Forget the occasional autism by some new players and vets, if people actually saw PD was very harsh on cracking down on stupidity and showed that they aim to prioritize roleplay instead of deploying tactical teams for a small group of gangs. then they have the assurance and confidence that PD truly cares. again disregard the volunteers, you cannot blame them for most of the problems, they are only a small fraction and only exude behavior they see from troopers.  Hence i said a reeducation of some aspects of PD from normal troopers right through to tactical teams is needed to a certain degree. 


Romero is also correct in mentioning that, PD at times does actually provoke the matter and make it worse when it really shouldnt have been.  As a cop your priority is to enforce the law, deescalate matters, be exemplary of what an upstanding citizen is, but that's icly though. OOCly you should be highly respected, you aks how? general small shit like talking smack over /p after a shootout and what not are just small examples of what can be trumped out. Same goes to criminal groups, it's pointless to expect to try and rp if it wont be reciprocated. Sticking to your attitudes and holding out is not going to solve the server dyanmics hence both sides actually need to take steps to rectify the matter. 


This attitude of "i will do it or abuse something for as long as it's not a rule or works in my favor" is what disgusts me from both sides legal and illegal. Get your shit together, that's an apathetic attitude. i mean honestly just because it's not a rule or interpreting the rules in such a way to benefit your agenda is the primary reason why chaos comes to light.  i would laud that as players from both sides you actually think for yourselves and actually reason. If something looks wrong and is not a rule, your brain should tell you i probably should not do it. 

Again i want no one to feel attacked here, such has been the case recently. But people need to swallow their pride and actually get to the nub of the issue and work to solve the issues at hand. Making smug commentary with sarcastic jokes is pathetic. the aim of this topic by ROmero i assume is to have healthy dialogue. 

Edited by Weston
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Supporting.

Also intelligence gathering is not a hard task as it seems. Frisking and interrogating an SU criminal can be the first step of intelligence gathering if you are starting from scratch. 

When you keep collecting small data and keep on sorting it. It starts to make sense after some time

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Point 2
I'm wholeheartedly supporting this. There is a need for some sort of intelligence in the PD, if not an intelligence division then the FBI should atleast share some information regarding the type of weapons the group is using and who are the members, so that the police can have a better reaction and approach to different situations created by or associated with the said groups. 

Edited by MarksmanV2
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6 hours ago, Romero said:

1) Punishing should be maintained and upheld.

 

There should be much longer admin-jails given instead of permbans for the typical stuff like DM/shooting at TS etc, but I agree to an extent, I'm mostly against the fake reporting that ends up in an admin questioning you for a long time due to a fake report and in the end the fake reporter gets a verbal warning or something.

 

6 hours ago, Romero said:

2) Members, especially supervisors of the department & Tactical operation teams (SWAT) must be able to differentiate between groups, and individualize their approach to each group.

 

6 hours ago, Romero said:

5) Criminal groups should roleplay as the type of group they chose.

 

As SWAT, we have strict deployment rules that disallows deploying for smaller reasons and it's something I've been pushing more and more since my return to give criminals more room and space to play around the server and not shut them down with script advantage for the slightest of crimes.
However, it's also unfair to underestimate the severity of situation by saying "its just a gang" or implying police should respond differently to a gang shootout depending on the group's type, considering each gang shootout SAPD goes in, it ends up in fighting multiple groups such as yesterday.
If gangs or the groups that roleplay as not too advanced criminals in their character background, then play along with it, i.e mavericks, snipers, bringing mafias to assist in. If you stick to it, then I believe there will be less need for heavy deployments from SWAT/PD.

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This topic should be in the ‘General’ section, management can’t script common sense into players’ heads

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55 minutes ago, Irishman said:

This topic should be in the ‘General’ section, management can’t script common sense into players’ heads

But... it is... in the General section....

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19 hours ago, Romero said:

1) Punishing should be maintained and upheld.

There's no point in punishing someone when he's going to rejoin and continue doing the same thing over and over again. Blacklisting should be taken more seriously to avoid that from happening. There should be a discussion if the player should be removed from the blacklist in certain cases, with valid arguments from the authorities.

It will not. So many have been punished in game and in forum by taking very strict punishments and at the end of the day people go crying at Mikro or at Matthew and the punishments gets withdrawn. Ask Silvester Aaron he has  done that shit a lot of times when he got punished in game and in forum. 

 

19 hours ago, Romero said:

2) Members, especially supervisors of the department & Tactical operation teams (SWAT) must be able to differentiate between groups, and individualize their approach to each group.

Each group has a certain playstyle that differentiates one from another, so members of the Departments must be able to take measures depending on each groups actions. Sending a tank at a few gang members is not something that should become a practice. Police force has enough departments to take actions against every group individually (depending on it's type).

SWAT approaches a group by depending on the way that group approached the police. And obviously if SWAT is even deployed that group has nothing to complain about anymore. 

 

19 hours ago, Romero said:

3) Players must prioritize roleplaying and not always be driven by the need to end situations with either a shootout or jailing. Ending them with a unique roleplay is preferred.

Pretty self-explanatory, but jailing or a shootout isn't always the answer. Work towards building a roleplay scenario that wouldn't last less than a minute when someone gets shot. Be creative.

They will not. Players in this community are taught to play-to-win. I was a cop, had someone cuffed and was treating him so I could rescue him with all the necessary roleplay and he just accepted death like there's no tomorrow. I reported and some new admin told me it's allowed. 
 

19 hours ago, Romero said:

4) There should be no camping, baiting and such activities where the officers would instigate the groups to do something that would result in a jail or a shootout.

Also self-explanatory, officers are supposed to do patrols in order to find active suspects, or to try and find ongoin criminal activity. Provoking in order to get a response from a criminal group should be punished same as the "Cop baiting" rule.

I really doubt cops do go around provoking suspects. If people could actually roleplay a TRAFFIC STOP without turning it into a DM fest then you can start complaining about cops who "provoke" suspects. All cops do is go after suspects, there is no camping or what so ever.

 

19 hours ago, Romero said:

5) Criminal groups should roleplay as the type of group they chose.

Mafias are supposed to do their job discreetly, away from any witnesses while holding a legal business as a cover. Gang members are supposed to create riots, steal cars, rob houses, defend their 'turf' where they hang out. Recently, you can see them planting flowers. Cops shouldn't turn situations such as dealing with a few gang members into a Mass DM with a simple panic button.

They really should. All they do is just make a massive group of people involving gangsters, "mafias", Terrorists and just go at BCR bunker and create a massive shootout. And then the looser cries because like I said above Play-to-win.
 

19 hours ago, Romero said:

6) Deal with situations depending on their type (IC/OOC)

A lot of situatuons were taken OOCly (as a recent PD/FBI situation) where people could have taken the whole situation ICly after gathering enough proofs. Court still exists and it's doing it's role well as far as I know. Cop shooting suspects randomly is not a corrupted cop, it's deathmatching and should be treated respectively. 

You can't take a situation ICly or OOCly in Mudoo when some random guy just comes near you and instead of asking for your name "HAHA NICE NAME BRO WANT BE FRIENDZ??". Also, court does not exist if the members of the court are at the same time the law breaching FBI agents. 

 

To complete my reply to you. Mudoo needs to be redone if they want to move towards Roleplay environment. The current SAMP server is Cops n' Robbers server with some extra small roleplay features. 

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"I was a cop, had someone cuffed and was treating him so I could rescue him with all the necessary roleplay and he just accepted death like there's no tomorrow. I reported and some new admin told me it's allowed."

Regardless of whether the admin was new or not, they're correct. When a player is knocked they can RP dying and refuse your revive. Refer to the rules list.

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1 hour ago, Julio said:

Regardless of whether the admin was new or not, they're correct. When a player is knocked they can RP dying and refuse your revive. Refer to the rules list.

Then why would you accept to be revived and then accept death. He was not even roleplaying. He was just flooding /b HACKER HACKER and was not even bothering to roleplay.

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1 hour ago, Julio said:

"I was a cop, had someone cuffed and was treating him so I could rescue him with all the necessary roleplay and he just accepted death like there's no tomorrow. I reported and some new admin told me it's allowed."

Regardless of whether the admin was new or not, they're correct. When a player is knocked they can RP dying and refuse your revive. Refer to the rules list.

That's what 'new rules' says, inbefore, accepting death while RPing reviving without having a headshot and with EMS presence is kinda unrealistic, and they were getting punished for it if I'm not wrong.
-
And about what Bruce's says, I agree in some points, unrealistic roleplay(bringing terrorists to assist a mafia member from the custody, what is this Mafia Spec Ops, LOL?)
And the people's death, they just accept death, only person that accepted my revive so far and went to jail then went out was this guy @Julio, rest all /revive X > rejected your offer.
I think you got my point.

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2 hours ago, Bruce said:

1) It will not. So many have been punished in game and in forum by taking very strict punishments and at the end of the day people go crying at Mikro or at Matthew and the punishments gets withdrawn. Ask Silvester Aaron he has  done that shit a lot of times when he got punished in game and in forum. 

 

2) SWAT approaches a group by depending on the way that group approached the police. And obviously if SWAT is even deployed that group has nothing to complain about anymore. 

 

3) They will not. Players in this community are taught to play-to-win. I was a cop, had someone cuffed and was treating him so I could rescue him with all the necessary roleplay and he just accepted death like there's no tomorrow. I reported and some new admin told me it's allowed. 
 

4) I really doubt cops do go around provoking suspects. If people could actually roleplay a TRAFFIC STOP without turning it into a DM fest then you can start complaining about cops who "provoke" suspects. All cops do is go after suspects, there is no camping or what so ever.

 

5) They really should. All they do is just make a massive group of people involving gangsters, "mafias", Terrorists and just go at BCR bunker and create a massive shootout. And then the looser cries because like I said above Play-to-win.
 

6) You can't take a situation ICly or OOCly in Mudoo when some random guy just comes near you and instead of asking for your name "HAHA NICE NAME BRO WANT BE FRIENDZ??". Also, court does not exist if the members of the court are at the same time the law breaching FBI agents. 

 

To complete my reply to you. Mudoo needs to be redone if they want to move towards Roleplay environment. The current SAMP server is Cops n' Robbers server with some extra small roleplay features. 

Ok, let's see...

 

1) Re-read what the suggestion says.

 

2) It's not normal seeing a whole SWAT team chasing down some gang members or a few immigrants. SWAT is made for people that don't know how to RP I suppose, since I never saw them RP-ing. Maybe they are, between themselves in that 8K HP Bunker while db'ing others, but I wouldn't know.

 

3) Everyone has the option to RP towards the end that they would prefer, if it's possible in the situation. You've never seen a patient dying on the helpers hands? Especially if they just ate few kilos of bullets?

 

4) If you seriously think that they're not doing that, you're either blind, lying or trolling. It goes to the point where's it's a publicly known thing. Don't know how you missed it.

 

5) The main reason behind Criminals helping one another is because PD used to bring whole SWAT & HRT teams with Bunkers and HW to help with a "simple traffic stop". It's just 1 panic button away.

 

6) I'm still trying to make a proper suggestion that would cover all the sides, with an unbiased solution. You're free to add something useful, like a solution to some of these points in the thread, 'cause this didn't contribute much.

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